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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everybody.

Below is the information that you need to include on your letters to the government. Included is a list of the people to hit

All,

Please find below the bullet points that we would like you to use in your words in letters to the following:



* Your State Local Member. http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/pa...entMembers
* Your Local Council/Mayor.
* Your Federal Local Member.
* Your local Paper.
* Premier of NSW: Kristina Keneally, [email protected]
* The Minister for Roads: David Borger, [email protected]
* The Minister for Transport: John Robertson, [email protected]
* The Minister for the MAA: Eric Roozendaal, [email protected]
* The Minister for Finance: Michael Daley, [email protected]
* Leader of the Opposition: Barry O’Farrell, [email protected]
* Shadow Minister of Transport: Gladys Berejiklian, [email protected]
* Shadow Minister for Roads: Andrew Stoner [email protected]





Ask these questions and use these points:



· Why are some CTP insurers making no effort to offer competitive pricing for a compulsory, statutory product?

o Clearly, the CTP system is fat and lazy with few incentives to offer fair pricing



· Whose turn is to be cheapest next year? GIO seem to be the cheapest this year.



· Cheap does not mean sub-standard.

o It indicates one company is pricing based on actual risk and others are seeking profit from how they market their product.

o It is unreasonable for a statutory, compulsory product, to force up pricing by confusing or misleading through so-called “marketing”

o Marketing distortions do not reflect actual risk.



· Why should existence of another insurance product or roadside service change pricing for CTP risk?

o Please explain how these are related to actual CTP claims risk.



· Why do some insurers have different risk ratings?

o If actual risks were known, then all insurers would vary on the same criteria.



· How do demerit points relate to actual risk of a CTP claim arising?

o Demerit points and actual risk of a crash are quite separate and no longer indicate crash risk.

o Minor crashes with no injury are about property damage, not CTP claims

o Speeding fines are simply used as a “malus stick” for revenue generation by insurers.



· While the MAA is clear on the amount of money leaving the scheme, how much money is collected by insurance companies?

o The question of fair profit follows, but transparency must be achieved.





Points to remember in your letters:

The NSW CTP scheme has flaws and this recent change in motorcycle classifications has exposed these flaws to view.

o These flaws can only be repaired by our elected government.

o Let them know it needs fixing.

o Don’t just whinge to your mate, then roll over. That’s lazy. Stand up, speak out.

o We’re being gouged by insurers exploiting the flaws.

o Speak to Parliament or they assume you’re OK with it.




In the meantime, we are continuing to plan for the Protest Rally on August 31st. Please spread the word.



The next Meeting of the MCC of NSW is on Monday, August 2nd. We would welcome all attendees and involvement.
 

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I go again to bombard :p Emailed to all the ones that you posted

Hi
I was contacting you to find out why the CTP Greenslips are being changed for motorcycles?

As I have done some research the margins will be increased as of 1st July 2010
I do own a car and a motorcycle, paying nearly the same CTP as a car is not fair.

I ride a 250CC motorcycle and this CTP will be increased approximate 84% eg.(Old $252, New $465)

Green slip as I know it is a peace of mind just in case if a person is to be injured in an accident the person would be payed by CTP insurance, if you look at the statistics cars tend to injure people and themselves more than motorcyclist.

Therefore I do not understand in why there is such a massive increase of prices of CTP Greenslips for motorcycles, and yes I have also searched for car’s CTP it is only a slight increase of about $20-$50.

By saying so now I believe motorcycles are treated as the same as “boats” or recreational vehicles, also in putting that in blunt words we should all drive cars to the city as it would the 2nd easiest way of transport adding to the many many cars that are already going towards the city at peak hours from 8.30am – 10am and going back to the west from 4pm – 8pm.

I believe you all have a say in to reduce the costs, please be considerate about motorcycle riders.
Please review below of the quotes provided by MAA Calculator
http://prices.maa.nsw.gov.au/index.html

I hope you would have the answers for me, as this is very frustrating.

Motorcycle for CBR250RR 91 12m - $458.90 6m - $236.40
Commencement Date: 14/07/2010
Privately owned Motorcycle 226-725cc, 1991 model
Vehicle normally garaged in (Metropolitan Region)
Registered for private use
Current CTP policy with QBE
No current comprehensive or third party insurance
Owner aged 19 years
8 licence demerit points
Youngest driver aged 19 years
No driver with at-fault accident in the last 2 years
No NRMA Roadside Assistance membership

Car for Corolla 2008 Sedan 12m - $678.13 6m - $347.07
Commencement Date: 14/07/2010
Privately owned Motor car, 2008 model
Vehicle normally garaged in (Metropolitan Region)
Registered for private use
Current CTP policy with QBE
No current comprehensive or third party insurance
Owner aged 48 years
6 licence demerit points
Youngest driver aged 19 years
No driver with at-fault accident in the last 2 years
No NRMA Roadside Assistance membership
 

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Good email AJ.
If we can get more people to write this sort of thing it will make a big difference.
CJ
 

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theres a massive ride day sometime soon! i rekon all us riders should block of the SYDNEY CBD !!!!! that should piss everyone off !!!
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good work AJ. Here is a list of all current pollies. Send an email or two. If all the parliment are made aware of the changes (and alot dont know and alot of bike riders dont know either) then the ride will be that more effective. In the 17 years Ive had my licence driving and riding I have never seen insurance go down. Untill now, my 675 will cost 298 with GIO. Call me sceptical but if you think thats not a ploy to make 600 riders not complain your blind. Next year the 600's CTP will rise and the reason from the insurance companys will be that alot of riders on small bike have upgraded to 600's so hence the new rise. Bike riders are there own worst enemy. We have that many different groups and most groups dont like the other groups. And theres the general feel of "It doesnt affect me so Im not doing dick about it, its there problem" It effects us all guys. Wether you ride a scooter, dirt bike, motard, 250, 400, 600, 1000,1300, sports bike, cruiser. We all get screwed!

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/V3ListCurrentMembers
 

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Block CBD, block parramatta, block miranda, block lol? main roads? haha

All of these email replies seem the same, cunts. :mad:

Here's the question which I put on notice on June 24 - the answer should be back by end of July or beginning of August.
11145—MOTORCYCLE COMPULSORY THIRD PARTY PREMIUMS
Mr Michael Richardson to the Minister for Police, and Minister for Finance—
1. What claims evidence does the Government have to support an increase in motorcycle Compulsory Third Party premiums by up to 85 per cent from July 1?
2. Is this just another tax from the Government, this time on motorcyclists?
3. Will the increased tax on under 250cc bikes discourage people from replacing their cars with scooters and increase congestion on our already overcrowded roads?
Thank you for your representation to the Minister for Police and Minister for Finance. The issues you have raised will be examined and a response provided to you shortly.


Office of the Hon. Michael Daley | Minister for Police | Minister for Finance
Dear Jack,

Thank you for your email concerning the increase in cost of Motorcycle CTP Green Slips in NSW.

Since 1 July, the owners of more than 165,000 registered motorcycles in NSW have had to deal with new green slip charges.

The latest cost increase is a result of legislation the Keneally Labor Government introduced last year. At the time they said it would only result in an increase to the cost of the average Green Slip of approximately $10.

The standard green slip fees for a 250cc motorcycle has risen by a dramatic 85.5 per cent and will cost many riders up to $470 a year for their green slips.

This rise comes on top of electricity, gas, water and vehicle registration hikes.

The Keneally Labor Government has an ongoing war on motorists and riders and it’s vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.

After nearly 16 years in power they have no ideas and offer no solutions on how to fix our State’s ailing road network.

The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and believe riders are rightly disappointed with the Keneally Labor Government as this is just another increase that was slipped in without any consultation.

Only the NSW Liberals & Nationals have the practical and positive plans that will Make NSW Number One Again.

NSW needs a change of Government but in the meantime, the NSW Liberals & Nationals are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in close consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW.

Thanks again for taking the time to write to me.

Barry
Dear Jack

Thank you for your email to Mr Andrew Stoner MP, Shadow Minister for Roads, in which you raise your concerns about the increase in cost of motorcycle CTP Green Slips in NSW. Mr Stoner has noted your concerns and has asked me to reply on his behalf.

Since 1 July, the owners of more than 165,000 registered motorcycles in NSW have had to deal with new green slip charges.

The standard green slip fees for a 250cc motorcycle has risen by a dramatic 85 per cent and will cost many riders up to $470 a year for their green slips.

This rise comes on top of electricity, gas, water and vehicle registration hikes.

The Keneally Labor Government has an ongoing war on motorists and riders and it’s vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.

After nearly 16 years in power they have no ideas and offer no solutions on how to fix our State’s ailing road network.

The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and believe riders are rightly disappointed with the Keneally Labor Government as this is just another increase that was slipped in without any consultation.

NSW needs a change of Government but in the meantime, the NSW Liberals & Nationals are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW and other stakeholders.

I would be more than happy to keep you updated if you like.

Kind regards

Ilse
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well about 3 this arvo there were 160 odd people now theres almost 400! We need more. So if you ride a bike in NSW sign up it takes 10 seconds.
 

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finally got a reply after like 2 weeks
Thank you for your email which was referred to the Minister for Finance,
Michael Daley MP, concerning compulsory third party (CTP) Green Slips for
motorcycles.

In New South Wales, the motor accidents scheme is underwritten by private
insurers. The licensed insurers set their own Green Slip premiums, within limits
set by the Motor Accidents Authority (MAA), based on a detailed assessment of
all available industry data and their own claims experience.

As with other types of insurance, a Green Slip premium is determined taking
account of a rider/motorist's specific circumstances as well as reflecting the
particular vehicle class and cost and frequency of injury claims against that
vehicle category.

In response to concerns raised by motorcyclists about Green Slip prices, the
MAA has been working with the Motorcycle Council of NSW to review the
guidelines the Green Slip insurers must follow in setting Green Slip prices for
motorcycles.

The review found that the previous guidelines for setting motorcycle Green Slip
prices grouped too many different-sized motorcycles together, resulting in some
motorcycle owners paying too much for their Green Slip and subsidising the
cost of Green Slips for other owners.

From 1 July 2010, the motorcycle classifications in the Green Slip scheme have
been changed to reflect the following ranges of engine capacity:
o 225cc or less
o 226cc to 725cc
a 726cc to 1125cc
o 1125cc to 1325cc
o Greater than 1325cc.

The changes in the motorcycle groupings mean that motorcycle owners are
now paying a Green Slip price which better reflects the actual cost of injuries
caused by riders within each of the motorcycle groups. More than 50% of
motorcycle owners will pay less for their Green Slip from July 2010.

Approximately one third of motorcycle owners are likely to see an increase in
their Green Slip renewal price as a result of these changes, as well as inflation
and an increase in the current number of claims.

As Green Slip prices vary based on each individual's circumstances, it is
important to shop around to make sure you are getting the very best available
Green Slip price. To assist riders find the cheapest Green Slip available the
MAA provides telephone and internet services which give a comparative guide
to Green Slip prices. The premiums on offer may be obtained by telephoning
the Green Slip Helpline on 1300 137 600 or visiting the MAA price calculator at
www.greenslips.nsw.gov.au.

I acknowledge your concerns and wish to assure you that the MAA is continuing
to work co-operatively with the Motorcycle Council to ensure fairness in Green
Slip pricing for motorcyclists, as well as addressing current issues relating to the
recent changes to motorcycle classifications.

Yours sincerely,
Andrew Nicholls
Acting General Manager
whole load of bullshit in there
this is a money making scheme if you think about it properly
now most new riders with no experience shall be going for 650cc bikes, thus causing more accidents as they might not be able to handle a much more powerful bike
and then guess what, they raise ctp for 650cc bikes because that group causes more accidents
works out perfectly for the fuckers
instead of promoting a 250cc category for learners to learn safely, they're pretty much promoting a 650cc category for learners
 

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how are they promoting the 650 category? the range is from 226 - 725 so why would learners now choose a 650cc over a 250cc?

All us learner riders will be loving it once we all get 600's though I bet...

I'm not saying the ctp rise is a good thing, my rego is due in a couple of months and I'm not looking forward to being reamed.
 

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viper33 said:
whole load of bullshit in there
this is a money making scheme if you think about it properly
now most new riders with no experience shall be going for 650cc bikes, thus causing more accidents as they might not be able to handle a much more powerful bike
and then guess what, they raise ctp for 650cc bikes because that group causes more accidents
works out perfectly for the fuckers
instead of promoting a 250cc category for learners to learn safely, they're pretty much promoting a 650cc category for learners
Wow. Just wow.

The LAMS category goes on POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO. This means that a 650cc Lams bike still has to abide to the same power to weight ratio guidelines as a 250cc bike. I think it's 150kw/tonne. Any more and it's not LAMS. So yeah, power may be delivered differently to a 250cc bike but they're all much of a muchness. Get an idea before you start babbling bulllshit.

Did you ever think that perhaps they're trying to promote the sub 126cc class for learners rather than promote 600cc LAMS bikes? Or that perhaps they're trying to direct learners who are more probably not able to afford the higher CTP towards the lower powered bikes - such as younger people who I can tell you for some part aren't responsible enough to be put behind the handlebars at all. Just hypothesising, but it really is a more valid argument than the crap you're going on about.

At the end of the day it's still cheaper to register a 125cc than a 600cc. I would have to say that the underpowered nature of a 125cc bike would be much easier to learn throttle control on and would be much more forgiving in most n00b circumstances. I learnt on a 250RR and loved it, but at the same time, the small cc bikes are a viable option which have been on the market for some time now.

I get that it's shit that your CTP is going up a fuckload - but don't make up stupid bullshit theories and poxie lies to justify your anger and to strike back at their response. It's not all a big conspiracy, there is no need for your tin foil hats. It's change, which is not always for the better, but it happens regardless. It's good that you're trying to stand up for yourselves though, I'm not saying you should give up - but be a bit more rational.

With the exception of the 250cc bikes the new CTPs are much fairer. It was stupid have a 300cc bike cost the same CTP as a 1000cc bike in the old system. Now imagine that - you bought yourself a RVF400 to learn on and you're paying $660 on your CTP. Does that seem fair to you? Of course not. I realise you're just asking for a fairer go for the 250 category, and I realise that you're not saying that you're opposed to an increase, but rather the level of increase that has occurred - but you're really not seeing the bigger picture here.

And another thing, I bet you didn't take the cost of CTP into consideration when you bought your bike. I know I never have and never will because I don't much care because it's one of those things you have to do. You may have thought that riding a bike would be a cheap alternative to other forms of transport, but thinking that and specifically getting a 250cc bike because of the cheaper CTP are two very different things.

Personally, my opinion is if you don't fucking like it - get a 125cc bike. Otherwise shut the fuck up. I honestly am not signing any petition or going on the protest ride (anymore) because of all the stupid fucking complaining and arguments you lot are having on the topic.

At the end of the day. It's not the end of the world.

[dons flame suit]
 

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sneddy, i can understand why you wouldn't protest
your ctp has obviously gone down

and besides have you recently talked to any new learners?
mention a 125cc bike to them and they'll start laughing
no one wants a 125, mainly coz they think that they will be made fun of
these days everyone wants to jump on an r1 on their Ls
I think double rr motorcycles have restriced some non Lams 600s like the r6 and cbr600 to make them lams legal but the matter is still upto the rta
if it goes through you'll be seeing a lot more learners on "restricted" r6s
and who is really gonna stop them from derestricting their bikes when on their Learners

Yes, I actually did consider how much the ctp would be before I bought my mc19, not an important factor but I had a rough idea of how much I should keep aside for rego + ctp, and adjusted my budget according to that
My point is that now since the ctp and rego is gonna equal roughly 600 bucks, it will be a pretty important factor in deciding your bike specially if you intend on keeping it for more than a year

Yes, I will be a bit happier when I get a 600, but thats still 3 years away and I'm pretty sure by that stage the prices for the 600s would have gone up as well
Also yeah people with 600s have got it easy with reduced prices, and some other classes as well
But if you think about it, it IS a money making scheme
the ninja 250 is the most selling bike right now, everyone knows cbr's are a top learner legal bike as well, not so in demand now
but 250cc is what most learners used to get
so an 85% increase in ctp for the top learner category isn't a money making scheme?
Its essentially causing two groups of learners to form
one the rich ones who now have more reason to get a bigger bike because rego and ctp is the same as a 250
and two the poor ones who'll now have to either get a 125 or a scooter
and they justify this because apparently our category causes the most accidents
isn't that great, now since everyone will be jumping on 125s and LEARNER LEGAL 600s, there will be more accidents in those categories and hence there will be a ctp increase in those categories as well
I'd like to see your responses when that happens coz then you'll only have yourself to blame
when you could've protested against unfair increases, you decided to sit on your ass and keep your mouth shut because your ctp had gone down
 

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If I was to extensively dissect this reply, i would make the points marked.
Give some thought to your response, flying off the handle etc. just shows the motorcycling community cannot think out a logical and structured response.

In response to concerns raised by motorcyclists about Green Slip prices, the
MAA has been working with the Motorcycle Council of NSW to review the
guidelines the Green Slip insurers must follow in setting Green Slip prices for
motorcycles.
Evidence? any surveys, petitions or letters able to be published to support this claim?

The review found that the previous guidelines for setting motorcycle Green Slip
prices grouped too many different-sized motorcycles together, resulting in some
motorcycle owners paying too much for their Green Slip and subsidising the
cost of Green Slips for other owners.
I believe this is a valid point, more so the possibility of subsidising other peoples ctp

The changes in the motorcycle groupings mean that motorcycle owners are
now paying a Green Slip price which better reflects the actual cost of injuries
caused by riders within each of the motorcycle groups. More than 50% of
motorcycle owners will pay less for their Green Slip from July 2010.
Figures that support this?

Approximately one third of motorcycle owners are likely to see an increase in
their Green Slip renewal price as a result of these changes, as well as inflation
and an increase in the current number of claims.
again, figures?

Going through bit by bit is much better than "OMG FAGZZ!! YOU BE HATING ON US!!"

If they cant produce any figures that are reputable, then we will have some grounds to be calling bullshit.
 

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Ok, I can understand your logic with learners riding more 125cc bikes and forcing their ctp prices up, but I still don't get the 600 argument. Sure more people might buy higher displacement bikes, but they are all in the same category now so I don't see how they will affect ctp prices. It is now cheaper for you to insure a higher displacement bike, a lot of companies do make LAMS approved 600cc bikes (not restricted road race bikes) and I'm sure they will see a jump in sales in the 500cc - 650cc range of learner bikes because of this. Both suzuki and kawasaki are offering about 8 or 9 learner bikes, most of which are 500cc and over bikes. I haven't had a look at honda or yamaha yet, but I know of the honda cb400 which is a LAMS bike.
 

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my point being that now the new riders, who just got their license will be jumping on bigger bikes
yes theres a power to weight ratio, but they are still much more powerful than a lot of 125s/250s
again if you look at what i mentioned above, double rr motorcycles was trying to legalise selling r6s and cbr 600s by restricting them and if the rta approves this then there is no stopping these new riders de restricting the bikes as its not a cosmetic change that the cops will notice

also charging all 250 riders extra because APPARENTLY our class has the most accidents is like charging anyone who drives a wrx extra because say 10 wrx's crashed recently, or waging war against all muslim countries coz a small percentage of them are safe havens for terrorists
its unfair to riders who have never crashed or have never had a demerit point/fine
specially because the riders who have never crashed are a majority of the 250cc group
 

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Actually, just out of interest how did they work out that a cbr250 comes in under 150kw per ton? The only way I can seem to get that number is to say the bike weighs 200kg and puts out 30kw, do they do the measurements at the wheel or something?

Viper, a restricted supersport bike is going to cost like 16,000 at least, then getting it de-restricted could be up to 2,000. Sure some people would do it, but not many. I still don't get why a learner will now suddenly be jumping onto a bigger bike, and I don't get why it's going to be a problem. Have you got some stats to back up your claim that the majority of riders who don't crash ride 250cc bikes?
 
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